The Great Infinite Frontier #0 ComicsXF Roundtable

Matt Lazorwitz: Welcome to ComicsXF’s roundtable discussion of DC’s new linewide event introduction, Infinite Frontier #0. I’m Matt Lazorwitz, the guy who came up with this harebrained scheme, and I’d like to start with everyone here sounding off. Let’s see who I’ve been able to gather from our illustrious staff.

Tony Thornley: Hi, I’m Tony Thornley, I’m a leo and I like long walks on the- oh wait…  Anyways… I’ve been a regular comic reader since I was 8, and as a kid I was always more of a DC guy than Marvel. So to have everything in the DCU restored? Exciting stuff! 

Justin Partridge: Hi, I’m Justin Partridge and I’m still just happy to be here. But beyond that, I’ve joined up to continue my love/hate relationship with the works of Detective Comics Comics. As one of the main contributors to CXF’s ongoing efforts to cover DC, I figured it was high time we did something high profile, and what’s more high profile than a glitzy new “zero issue” portending the next year of DC?! Fun stuff FER SURE!

Ari Bard: Hi, I’m Ari Bard, and this looked like a proper balance between the chaos I bring to my X-Force and Tom & Jerry commentaries with Kenneth Laster and the love of all things DC I bring to my Swamp Thing pieces with Vishal Gullapalli. Glad to be here!

ML: So, thanks for agreeing to do this, folx. We have a lot of material to dig into here. I figure we’ll take this chronologically, although we’ll bundle the Batman stuff that’s broken up throughout into one discussion point. So, without any further ado, let’s hit it.

We’re opening here with Wonder Woman, after saving the universes at the end of Dark Nights: Death Metal, meeting up with the Quintessence, the quorum of the DCU’s various magic and cosmic muckety-mucks. I like that Wonder Woman is getting the in-universe respect that she so rightly deserves.

JP: AH! The Quintessence! When The House of Heroes ISN’T dorky enough! The Quintessence!

TT: Is this the first time we’ve seen the Quintessence since 2011? 

ML: They popped up briefly a couple times during Scott Snyder’s Justice League run, but I think that’s about it in the Rebirth era.

TT: Ah, I dropped off that run halfway through and been meaning to pick it back up. I really enjoyed seeing them though. They’re a good entry point for “this is classic DC through a modern lens.” Athena in the wizard Shazam’s place (or is she in Zeus’s place?) is a good move, and the Spectre has been sorely missed.

ML: I believe that is Hera, actually (the peacock feathers on her bodice are the clue, as the peacock was one of the symbols of Hera), and yes, she is standing in for her husband, Zeus, who is currently dead, I believe.

TT: Ah, you’re right, it’s right there in the dialogue. That’ll show me not to re-read the book before we start talking. LOL

ML: But anyway, The Spectre takes up his role from Kingdom Come, the guide to the book’s protagonist, and so we’re off on a tour of the DC Universe as it stands. And our first stop is Egypt, where a couple of Justice Leaguers find themselves a little late to save the day thanks to… Shazadam already having saved it. I know it’s a joke, but boy I hope that name doesn’t catch on anywhere.

TT: Can I say from a story flow perspective, this is weird to have this before the following Batman scene? It’s a good way of saying “Justice League is a centerpiece” though. I do like when the League has a good casual relationship, and Superman learning that Adam is acting altruistically is sweet, while Barry teasing him about it takes a bit of the edge off Kal’s cheesiness.

JP: Yeah, the wonkiness of these anthology reboot one-shots is they always have this herky-jerky construction and you would THINK after about, what, four, five of these by now, they would have found a way to smooth that out. 

I WILL SAY THOUGH, having Diana ostensibly being our POV character, walking us through the introduction of these new Leaguers (even though I…am dubious about the potential of Shazadam) is fun enough. AND like y’all said, having her be the being “speaking for the (rebooted) Earths” finally positions her to a station worthy of her import to Detective Comics Comics.

AB: I think it was supposed to be DC’s suggestion of, “anything is possible now,” but it doesn’t really land that way when… Black Adam isn’t even in the scene?  I supposed it’s supposed to be a tease and to pique our curiosity, but it didn’t really work for me.

JP: THIS I absolutely love. One of the great strengths of the DCU is their mythic, slightly insane scope. BUT I would also agree that maybe this first bit kinda falls flat toward the promise and maybe Shazadam WASN’T the hot top of the card act they might have wanted.

ML: It’s a cute scene, but it is definitely one of the least weighty ones in the book. And has fairly limited dialogue for a Bendis penned sequence.

Next up, we go to Gotham. Now, this story feels the most out of place in this book to me. Not bad in the least, mind you, but thematically disconnected. These are all stories about new beginnings and hope, and while we do get some kind of new beginning here, I suppose, it’s far from a hopeful one. This is Gotham at its darkest, with chaos and death at Arkham, Batman an outlaw, and the introduction of a new big bad after the death of another.

And, as one of the site’s resident Batman guys, I have to say the Spectre is being awful judgy when he says Batman doesn’t see the good in his foes. This is a guy who has given Two-Face how many chances, recruited Clayface onto his Gotham Knights in Detective, has forgiven Harley Quinn and still hasn’t given up on Red Hood and Damian no matter how many times they slip up and kill somebody. But I guess if you’re the wrath of God, you sort of see the worst in people.

TT: It’s especially strange when you consider how much the redemption of Harley, Clownhunter AND Ghost-Maker is key to Tynion’s current run.

JP: You would ALSO think ‘ol Jimmy Corrigan, being a born and raised Gothamite, might cut Bruce a bit of slack in terms of living and working in…ya know, a city that sustained a trilogy of apocalyptic events throughout the ’80s and ’90s. 

BUT you are totally right. It’s again emblematic of the oddly juttering tonality a lot of these one-shots have and it being so laser focused on the developments currently starting to bloom in the main Bat title. It doesn’t really pep stuff up, beyond the truly horrifying new Scarecrow design. 

If anything it’s a wonderful trailer/statement of intent for the incoming year of James Tynion IV’s Batman (which I’ve really been digging as of late). Needs more Renee Montoya though, but that’s REALLY true for everything honestly.

ML: You can always use some more Montoya, no question. 

Can we also say, judging by hair color and what I am sure is going to be some strong anti-mask feelings after getting blown up real good, that CO Sean Mahoney will become Peacekeeper-01? I talked about this in a Dark Detective review recently, but I like this sort of back-dated origin, where we know where this guy is going, and now we have to sit back and watch him descend from what seems like a not awful guy to the fascist we saw throughout the “Future State” Gotham titles.

JP: Yeah, it certainly seems like this is the move. Thematically, I think it tracks. It’s a fun bit of follow through from the “Future State” event which I can appreciate, but I’m worried that the reveal won’t hit as hard for the people who might have skipped the line altogether (which it seems like was a semi-common occurrence). 

TT: I didn’t even catch that, but it totally fits. It’s a great tragic setup. But I agree that the revelation might not land well for anyone who skipped “Future State.”

JP: I don’t know! It’s odd, I like all the track it’s laying but I wish it would have maybe contributed a bit more to the actual one-shot? I dunno, maybe I’m just crabby. It looks TREMENDOUS though, that I think we can all agree on.

ML: Yes. If Jimenez can keep to a monthly schedule, Batman is going to be one of the best looking books on the racks.

Next stops are Themyscira and Boise, Idaho, where we get introductions to our new Wonder Woman and Wonder Girl. I knew from promo art from Justice League that Hippolyta was going to be Wonder Woman for a bit, but I have to say I was hoping it would be Nubia. How many times has Hippolyta filled in for Diana? It would have been nice to see a different Wonder Woman, especially one of color.

TT: Yeah, it was great to see that Nubia is the new queen of the Amazons, but let’s give her an adventure not unlike Artemis when she took over for Diana in the ’90s. The trajectory isn’t that different.

JP: Yeaaahh, this is a bit of a let down for sure. ESPECIALLY after the reception we have seen to the incoming (or maybe it’s already out now, I’m lé teéreble at keeping up with solicits) Nubia: Real One. [Editor’s Note: Nubia: Real One hit comic shops 2/23]

I WILL SAY THOUGH, in slight defense of this section, I DO like that they are leaning into Wonder Woman as a legacy hero once again. It matches well with her “ascension” and new position as, I guess, like, a New God? Or new actual capital G God? I’m still unclear on this but I appreciate editorial allowing more than one Wonder Woman without a parenthetical or Girl/Lady modifier.

AB: I am a little confused as to what Diana is supposed to be now and where she fits, and normally, I am all for legacy heroes! I think at some point, when a character has had enough stories told about them and enough of a mythos built around their existence, it’s time to pass the torch and move on. That being said, I don’t think Diana has been written well enough in the last two decades to where I’m ready to completely let go of her yet. It’s pretty shameful how few women have even gotten the chance to write the character. I will eat my words if this is what finally allows DC to tell stories that break Diana out of a more traditional superhero mold that constraints many of our favorite characters. If Diana is truly leading the new DC, hopefully more risks will be taken outside of the more nationalistic, militaristic and capitalistic framework we’re so often accustomed to. It would also be a nice counterbalance to the examinations of fascism that seem to be coming in Gotham.

JP: AND THAT’S A TREMENDOUSLY FAIR POINT. One that I also think kind of exposes the ramshackle nature of the Metal/Death Metal resolution, right? Certainly on paper the idea of “and it all leads to ONE person pushing back the dark…and it’s DIANA!” is cool but not cool enough to lose her to the ether of the DCU Heavens. 

Also, you nail it again. It’s absolutely embarrassing so few women are on this book. Our favorite Detective Comics Comics SuperScholar Cori McCreery recently ran down the number of women who have written Supergirl in the wake of the latest announcement that Tom King will headline a new miniseries. The evidence was…fairly damming and I would be VERY curious toward the same data applied to Diana and her creative teams.

ML: Not much better. I can think of one woman who had a long run (Gail Simone), plus shorter runs by Mindy Newell, Mariko Tamaki, G. Willow Wilson and Jodi Picoult. We do have Becky Cloonan co-writing this new run, and Joëlle Jones writing the Wonder Girl series with Yara Flor, which was a fun little three pages, but just the barest of prologues to her new ongoing. I want to say this is the beginning of a sea change, but as you point out with the Supergirl announcement, it doesn’t seem like any real changes are happening in the short term.

JP: *foghorn noise*

I will say, just to get it under glass, I find Yara quite charming! Even with the bonehead pitfalls the character has gone through since her introduction. Her team up with Jon Kent in “Future State” was one of the standouts and at the very least, it is nice to see DC is keeping her around for a bit longer (and hopefully to her betterment).

TT: But Yara’s hometown Boise is still a super weird choice. I mean, yes, Boise is a little over 7% percent Hispanic or Latino. However, you try to find out any more information about the Brazilian population of the city and all you can find is a couple Brazilian steakhouses. It’s such a strange choice.

ML: Ok, time to get out the tissues, because now we’re onto the Alan Scott and his kids scene. I loved this. I loved how heartfelt it was, I loved how it spoke to a real world experience I’ve never seen in superhero comics. It did what Infinite Frontier has promised, respecting all continuities, taking in every aspect of a character’s numerous pasts, while moving the character forward.

JP: Okay. So. Like. I’m a BIG Justice Society of America mark. 

Like, EMBARRASSINGLY so. You can absolutely imagine, with the parade of grossos that have handled that book through the “modern” era, and you can ALSO imagine with the New 52-Rebirth era this has been absolute HELL for anybody that likes that team and it’s rosters, who HAVEN’T been allowed any stage time outside of AUs for coming on a decade now. 

BUT HOOOOOOLY CATS Y’ALL did this make me instantly break into hysterical tears. Alan Scott, my second favorite Green Lantern behind Kyle Rayner, has long had a literal shadow hanging over him for those decades. While his son Obsidian was allowed a rocky, but generally open, road to out, Alan never got the chance to explicitly SAY it. Like. EVER. Despite ALLLL the odd tiptoeing and heavy hinting done throughout various team books and event appearances (and the Alan Scott of Earth-2 and Injustice being queer while never allowing the “prime” version to be). 

And actually just allowing him, Obsidian, and JADE (one of the longest benched characters in Detective Comics Comics history now fully returned to speaking roles) to just TALK about it. Played to the absolute holy hilt but artist Stephen Byrne. I just…gah…it’s so good. I’m so happy for him and US, the long suffering queer JSA fans who have been screaming for this moment since like 1998. (Just for the interest of full disclosure, FULLY welled up with tears writing/thinking about this moment again).

TT: It was so great, and it made Alan feel way more human than he had in such a long time. It was executed so well that I was very willing to forgive Tynion’s cheesy “sentinel” line. Give me more of this JSA, and family dynamics like this to make it feel authentic.

ML: And after a two page Titans Academy lead-in that is just sort of, “Hey, there’s a Titans Academy and here’s Red X,” we get another heartwarming story. Jon Kent proving he can be as good a man as his dad. Again, the Spectre is being a judgy jerk, but Jon proves that he can look beyond the obvious and choose to look for the good in his enemies. I’m not sure if this was well planned enough to directly call back to the Justice League story at the beginning, but this feels like a direct response to that, and gives the anthology a bit more unity. And it has Jamal Igle art, who draws a great Superman family.

JP: I’m not sure, I think maybe out of all of these, this is what I’m the most dicey on. 

TT: Same, but I came around to it in the end.

JP: We have seen through Future State that Jon’s first years as Superman are a bit turbulent, leading to the bottling of Metropolis and the relative destabilization of the DCU’s cityscapes. So maybe this is what Spectre Jim is referring to in his portentous “And he must never BE SUPERMAN!” narration. 

But I am less enthusiastic about the idea of Jon Kent becoming an “Evil Superman”, especially after he has JUST NOW found a fun character outside of the ping-ponging characterizations of Patrick Gleason, Peter J. Tomasi and Brian Micheal Bendis (who absolutely wasted Jon during his tenure of Superman/Action Comics)

AB: Agreed.  I am trying to figure out if my problem with this story lies more with the idea of “Evil Superman” or how ridiculous Spectre becomes within it. I apologize, but I’m going to go on a brief tirade about DC’s misuse of omniscient characters here. I understand that some beings have to exist above all and at a level we can’t comprehend, but they can’t just be empty malleable vehicles with no sense of consistency to escort us around the universe. Here more than ever, it feels like the Quintessence is the absolute manifestation of DC’s limitations.  Everything is possible, but here are five beings who can see everything to give you their thoughts about the extremely narrow destinies and the solutions that lay before them. The two cannot coexist with the Quintessence shoved into this role, but the solution also doesn’t have to be what awaits in the epilogue  Anyways I hope Jon’s future is as bright as Igle’s art and not as dark as what Jim Corrigan claims lies ahead.

TT: Here’s my issue with this scene. We just got Conner Kent back, and he’s battled his demons since the early 2000’s, particularly with his literally evil half. Hell, Conner in Infinite Frontier is joining the damn Suicide Squad, if it couldn’t be more obvious that plot is continuing. Meanwhile Jon has been a lot like his dad, but has been through so much more thanks to Jor-El’s machinations. So why- when we literally have a Superboy struggling with his dark side by being on a black ops team- do we need to have another Superboy with a mysterious and ill-defined “darkness” himself? Especially a darkness we’ve never seen before. It’s interesting, but it didn’t land for me.

ML: Could Spectre be somehow jumbling things? Could his vision be clouded and he’s seeing Conner?

TT: THAT I would find interesting and would retroactively redeem this moment for me. But Diana’s hope and faith in Jon? That was the high point of the scene, and I really hope that continues.

JP: Yeah, holy cats, I would love that a LOT actually. And again, like y’all said, it would be really disappointing to see Conner immediately pitted against Jon in some kind of weird jockeying for the Superboy positions, but I find the prospect of them at least being on panel together again interesting.

ML: And now we have Green Arrow and Black Canary, just hanging out in bed, and Roy Harper is alive again. Here is where it’s terrible to have all of continuity back, at last from a character’s point of view. Roy is one of the very few characters that the New 52 actually benefited. Sure, he still had drug problems in his past, but now he had Jason Todd as his buddy, and they went on fun adventures. Roy had a really rough time right before the reboot: his daughter died, he lost an arm, he relapsed and he became a villain. So, in the new continuity he has his arm back, but does he remember all those horrors? It would be bad enough remembering one of his best friends accidentally killed him, but factor all that in? Oh, poor Roy. 

JP: THIS I’m more into, I think! Dinah and Ollie are two of my absolute favorite street level DCU characters and it’s nice seeing them pushed again to the forefront of this era’s “A-List” and I think by this point the issue benefits from the downshift after the Super-action. 

Roy and Jason too is a potentially fun pairing should they stray too far away from Cry For Justice territory. The memories thing too, I always think about. It’s a very Morrisonian idea that they can come back through Crisis contact and still retain some memory of their past selves. What are they, SWAMP THING?! I dunno, I DO like, just overall, seeing my favorite bow-wielding, Leftie Wife Guy back and poised for more use in the larger line of books.

AB: I will always want Dinah and Ollie to get more of the spotlight, but I will always wonder about the mysterious Box from the previous era.  Poor Roy Harper you sweet, sweet boy.  That is all I have to say.

ML: Yeah, I doubt we’ll ever see that box thing followed up. A shame.

TT: I don’t have much to add here besides that I love seeing Ollie and Dinah truly back together, and having Roy back. As well as Williamson wrote this scene, I would not mind to see him following up with all three featured characters in the short! And Maleev art is always welcome!

ML: The next section of the book is the Stargirl story, but that’s all we’ll be saying. Due to recent allegations of his involvement with systemic and overt racism on the set of Justice League, ComicsXF has made the editorial decision to not cover the works of Geoff Johns moving forward. 

JP: A>E.

AB: A>E

TT: A>E

ML: The Green Lantern segment is another of the ones that serves as a lead-in more than anything that stands alone. I do think John Stewart and Simon Baz are a combination we haven’t seen before, so I do look forward to more of that, and Teen Lantern is fun, but this, like Yara Flor and Titans Academy, is more set-up than anything on its own.

JP: Yeah, it’s pretty obviously a backdoor pilot for the incoming ongoing, but I think out of all of these (aside from the final story, which we will touch on in a bit) this has the most raw potential to hook me back to a title i have been less than connected to as of late. 

While I’ve been waiting to binge read the brain melting The Green Lantern since it’s largely its own thing away from the “core” line of titles, the focus away from Hal (not even my TENTH favorite Green Lantern) is always appreciated.  Also yeah! The pairing of Simon and John (along with a quirky Teen Lantern foil) has a promise for sure. Also, and this just might be me, it’s nice seeing the title follow up on having two leads of color once again, after the criminally underrated Green Lanterns, which paired up Simon and Lantern Queen of My Heart, Jessica Cruz.

AB: This story was very sweet.  It was a very generational conversation between lanterns that seemed to exist outside of everything, and the sense of wonder given to Teen Lantern was palpable.  Now, does it give me faith in Geoffrey Thorne, the man behind the absolute train wreck that was those two Future State: Green Lantern issues?  NOPE. 

JP: Yeah those were…less than great, I will concede.

ML: Geoffrey Thorne wrote a bunch of episodes of Leverage. Anyone who wrote for Leverage gets a couple chances from me. Sorry, but I just loves me some Leverage.

TT: I really dug the character interactions here, and I love Keli from her time in Young Justice. It makes me wonder about the mystery behind her gear, which Bendis didn’t really do anything with. Really my only complaint is a severe lack of Jess, the best Green Lantern.

ML: Yeah, I miss Jess. But boy, can you imagine if she shows up later teamed up with Jo Mullein? SIGN ME UP RIGHT NOW!

TT: Hell yeah!

JP: God, yes please, more Jo (my third favorite Green Lantern).

ML: And before the big finale, we have Flash. Oh Flash. Are we finally paying off Wally West’s hopeful return in Rebirth? I love Wally. He’s my Flash; always has been, always will be, and he’s gotten the rawest of deals the past few years. I really hope he gets some exciting adventures and some fun. I don’t want to have to make a “Leave Wally West alone!” video.*

JP: OH GOD OKAY, so this is minefield, right? Being a Flash person. But GOD help me, if I don’t actually love this. 

Now that Lcott Sobdell has gotten his grubby mitts off of Wally West, we finally get another genuinely affecting Flash moment in which Barry “Wonder Bread” Allen finally, EXPLICITLY names Wally The Flash of this new Earth-Prime (Or is it Earth-0 now?), while also passing along some sweet (if a bit arch) parting words for his former sidekick. It’s a wonderful moment and one that genuinely does feel like a connective tissue to the promise of Rebirth (which absolutely whiffed hard after that show stopping moment). 

BUT THAT’S NOT EVEN THE BEST PART. While Wally wafts willingly into his new position, Barry Allen takes up his: New Speedster of Justice Incarnate, protectors of the House of Heroes and the newly reformed multiverse of Earths. NOW we don’t get MUCH by way of roster of this new J. I. M.  (that’s Justice Incarnate of the Multiverse) or what kind of missions they would undertake, but the truly screwy promise of that alone gets me truly, madly, deeply amped. 

And also like you said! It frees Wally West up for so much (badly needed) character rehabilitation and the chance to finally wash the Heroes in Crisis/Williamson Era tastes out of our mouths. Allison has been through enough YALL, we can’t keep killing and abusing her himbos.

TT:  My hell, yes. First we get Howard Porter Flash pages (always a delight). Then Justice Incarnate. THEN Barry anointing Wally as his successor! This is probably the most exciting part of the entire one shot. Everything was executed really well.

I really like WIlliamson’s writing more when the editors let him cut loose. More of this please.

ML: Yes, more Justice Incarnate; that’s a concept that hasn’t gotten as much play as it deserves, and could use its own mini or ongoing. It’d be like a high powered, less angsty version of Marvel’s Exiles, and I am good with that.

Finally , we enter the conclusion of the main story and the epilogue. We get Diana choosing to not join the Quintessence but instead explore the worlds of the Infinite Frontier. I’m cool with this. Diana has been a goddess at least twice before, and it doesn’t suit her. She is of the people, not above them. It’s also good, because she’s not there when the twist happens.

I am fine with the big, scary threat being imprisoned on Earth-Omega. I like a mysterious uber-threat that we can build up. But the big reveal of the death of the Quintessence at the hands of Darkseid? Oy, but Darkseid could use a rest.

JP: Yeah, the reveal of the big Omega (as pretty as it was, as they seem to have streamlined his deisgn a fair amount and cast off a lot of the stupid seam work of the New 52/Rebirth design) is a bit ho-hum. 

I DO like better the reveal that Diana will possibly be our lead for the incoming event and also still be available to the general writing pool of DC. I think it miiiight undercut the “majesty” of the opening somewhat, but I’m willing to overlook it if it means we get Diana as a lead again somewhere down the line. Alongside all her other Wonder sisters in other books.

AB: And they kill the Quintessence! That group of omniscient beings they have no idea what to do with? Turns out they’ll just kill them, I guess. That’s not really the answer to characters you don’t know what to do with.

JP: Hey, it works for the Celestials over at Marvel!

ML: I mean, it’s smart for Darkseid himself to call out how lessened he’s been in recent years, but he has been the big bad of so many stories: Final Crisis (Yes, Mandrakk was technically the final villain there, but Darkseid was the villain throughout), the opening of the new 52, “Darkseid War” plus he was in Metal and Death Metal. It’s hard to be intimidated by a guy Batman wore in a baby bjorn for a while. I think DC needs a new cosmic menace who isn’t either Darkseid or the Anti-Monitor. Perpetua never got enough play to join the pantheon, so now would be a good time to give us something new, consarnit!

TT: All of these are very true and very good points, but I have to be real- that big final splash page is the best use of John Romita Jr. at DC since he joined the publisher. The fact that he drew it so well, capturing what I think is probably his creative peak at Marvel when he was drawing both Spidey and Thor, it was pretty cool. Yes, a cliche and overused moment… but it sure looked cool.

ML: And so that’s where we’re left: a dark force rising, the gods dead (or defeated. How do you kill the wrath of God?) but hope springing from this new wider world. It’s not the first time DC has promised us hope, and each previous time they’ve suckered me into believing it before pulling the rug out from under me with more grimdark. Let’s see what happens this time, huh? Thanks to my team for joining me on this epic journey and thank you for reading.