It’s an off week for all the main Bat titles, so we’re digging into the DC Vault for this week’s BatChat, specifically the digital issue #3 of Let Them Live!: Unpublished Tales from the DC Vault, a tale entitled “Flesh Made Word” written by Scott Bryan Wilson, drawn by John Paul Leon, colored by Dave Stewart and lettered by Deron Bennett, with a framing sequence written by Elliott Kalan, drawn by Mike Norton and colored by Marissa Louise.
And it’s do or die time as our intrepid team decides whether they’re going to keep covering Batman/Catwoman, as the Batwoman of the future tries to learn about her mother’s history with the Joker, Phantasm meets Catwoman in the present, and Batman and Catwoman have a rough patch in the past with issue #4, written by Tom King, drawn by Clay Mann, colored by Tomeu Morey and lettered by Clayton Cowles.
Matt Lazorwitz: So, we’re definitely getting some different takes this week. Well, one different take and one still incomprehensible one.
Will Nevin: Let’s fast forward three or four or five years. Mister Miracle and Vision are probably making those “neato comics English elective” course reading lists. We’ll remember some of the good parts of King’s Batman run (Ride or die forever with “Cold Days”), but those memories will be saddled with his exit and the blah-ness post-wedding. What are we going to say about Batman/Catwoman?
ML: I have a hope — a faint one, but a hope — that this thing is going to read really well when collected. But as single issues, this is just a formalist mess. When the form completely overwhelms comprehensibility, you have a problem.
Batman/Catwoman #4
ML: So we started out here, so let’s just get through this. This comic is making me feel dumb. I just can’t imagine it’s that hard to tell the past and present sections apart, and yet every issue I get completely turned around in at least one segment trying to figure out if this is now or then. And I’m OK with a comic making me feel dumb when it’s moving in this direction that gives me some epiphany. But that isn’t what this is doing. This isn’t heading to one big moment that makes everything click. It’s just very muddled.
WN: Matt, are you an Arrested Development fan?
ML: I loved the first three seasons. Less so the direct-to-Netflix stuff, but I’ve seen those, too.
WN: Yeah, no one says, “Man, the show really hit its stride when it got to Netflix.” But that first Netflix season, the one where they should have waited even longer to get everyone with clean and clear schedules but they didn’t so they had to do all that weird green-screen shit, did you ever watch the recut, chronological edit?
ML: Nope; I watched it as originally aired and figured once was enough. Does that actually help it any?
WN: I can definitively say it doesn’t make it worse. The narrative is cleaner, you can follow storyline developments and it certainly feels closer to the original. But here’s my point: I think we could recut Bat/Cat into something worth reading by doing a simple “then, now, later” book. Strip away the jolting jump cuts. Focus on the good stuff, like Old Ass Rogues Gallery and Kid Batmanwoman (who is maybe worried about her paternity?!). Lose the format and chalk it up as a failed experiment in editing.
ML: I would read that story. The future stuff is by far the most interesting part of the book as it is. There are some continuity quibbles I have, but since this is a Black Label book, I can just let that go.
I still find it odd to do a Mature Readers sequel to an all-ages Batman story/movie. Again, this issue dipped heavily into Mask of the Phantasm territory. You still have not seen the film, correct?
WN: One day, Matt. One day. I still have enough assholes telling me Lego Batman is the best Bat movie before I try another all-timer that I haven’t seen.
ML: We won’t even go there. But the whole bit with Phantasm playing what I assume is a recording of her telling her kid about the Gotham World’s Fair? That World’s Fair bit is a major set piece in Mask of the Phantasm, both in the flashbacks to Andrea and Bruce’s courtship and the present, where a dilapidated World of Tomorrow is where Joker is hiding out. That scene resonated for me because I knew what it was referencing. Did it just seem like a lot of narration for minimal effect to you?
WN: I must have been in a good mood when I read this, because it didn’t bother me at all *and* I didn’t get the sense that I was missing out on something. I mean, I was confused as hell the whole time, but that’s the state of play in this book — I suppose I’m accustomed to it at this point.
ML: So I think we’re of one mind on this, but just to confirm: We’re going to stop reviewing this book with this issue, since we keep circling back to the same points, yes? Maybe look at it when it’s done and we can view it as a whole?
WN: For four issues, we’ve had the same idea — it’s a convoluted, overwritten mess that alternates between boring and confusing. That hasn’t changed, and it’s not gonna. So I concur, Brother Matt; the patient is dead, but I agree that we may revisit the corpse. Especially if I can buy a print copy and rearrange all of the pages so they actually make sense. #ReleasetheNevinCut
Flesh Made Word
ML: Meanwhile, we have something very different to look at. For those who don’t know, DC has been releasing stories that have been sitting in their files digital-only over on the DC Universe Infinite app, and the third issue was a Batman story, and since we had a light week, we thought this would be a fun thing to dig into. What did you think of this story, Will?
WN: Detective Batman is Best Batman. Gothic Horror Batman is Second Best Batman. I thought it was a real spoopy hoot, Matt.
ML: I liked this story a lot. It has a great atmosphere, to which I give a lot of credit to the layouts of John Paul Leon, who has always drawn a wicked Batman. And the villain, the Bookbinder, is absolutely a Batman Villain™. There aren’t a lot of superheroes whose world would support a guy who kills his victims, flays them and binds books in their skin. That is a very Gotham concept.
WN: The art and the layouts are what really make this into a little gem, but I’m not going to complain about Bookbinder — he meshes well with what works here.
ML: I do have one … I’m not sure if quibble is the right word for it, but one thing that left me a little flat. I have a very specific interpretation of Batman in my head; I think we all do. And writer Scott Bryan Wilson’s Batman is a little more Punisher than I like. There are internal monologue bits where Batman thinks about how much he enjoys hitting people, and the Batman I want to read about month in and month out isn’t that guy. That being said, for a one-off? I can accept a different take than what I’m looking for in Batman or Detective Comics.
WN: That tone was a bit off, no doubt — and we should keep in mind that this was shelved for *some* reason. Wilson’s Bat reminds me of South Park’s riff on Russell Crowe: My violence is art! I’m creating as I smash your face! I love beating people up indiscriminately! It’s off-putting. I’ll tell you what bugged me the most, though: The framing device totally undercut the neat layouts by joking about them. I had a really cool interview with Elliott Kalan, and I think he’s doing great work in Maniac of New York, but that was a serious miscalculation to cut the legs out from under this story.
ML: Gotta say: picked up first two issues of Maniac of New York together when issue #2 dropped, and after reading your and Justin’s review: did not disappoint.
But that being said, I agree entirely about the frame for this story. I understand the frame sort of unites all these stories, but I think different narrators working in the Vault to better fit the tone of the story would work, too. Get Cain of House of Mysteries or Lucien the Librarian to do a Cryptkeeper-esque intro and outro, and it would be so much less jarring.
WN: I think less would be more here — the neat thing about these stories (especially if they reach deeper into the archives) is that we’re getting snippets of things that never were and perhaps were never meant to be. Who needs an elaborate framing device? Maybe if this was getting collected in trade, but that doesn’t seem to be the point here — it’s lagniappe to keep us on the DC Infinite platform. Give us the straight, uncut dope, DC. Which brings me to another thought I had after reading the Suicide Squad story: Why the hell is DC doing content edits? Jeeze.
Bat-miscellany
- I wonder how many vault stories are Batman stories? I guarantee there are a ton of old Legends of the Dark Knight and Batman: Black and White pitches that got done to some degree of finished and then were shelved.
- Last year, to little fanfare, DC did release another vaulted Batman story: a Zsasz story from the Devin Grayson/Roger Robinson Batman: Gotham Knights run that was pulled for being too intense was placed, uncolored, in the Batman: Arkham: Victor Zsasz trade that came out around the time of the Birds of Prey movie.
- Future State: Bat/Cat has a fascinating reversal of Mr. Freeze’s usual fortunes: He’s in the tank, and Nora (presumably) is healthy and OK.
- Future Penguin doesn’t look or act old enough considering the rest of his contemporaries are either dead, retired or permanent Arkham residents.
- Future Clayface reminiscing on how all the baddies were “friends” was a nice touch.
Matt Lazorwitz read his first comic at the age of 5. It was Who's Who in the DC Universe #2, featuring characters whose names begin with B, which explains so much about his Batman obsession. He writes about comics he loves, and co-hosts the podcasts BatChat with Matt & Will and The ComicsXF Interview Podcast.
Will Nevin loves bourbon and AP style and gets paid to teach one of those things. He is on Twitter far too often.
