The Web-Warriors are back to discuss a bunch of books, including a lightning round!

In Amazing Spider-Man #3-4, Peter Parker faces the Hobgoblin head on, in a story written by Joe Kelly, drawn by Pepe Larraz, colored by Marte Gracia and lettered by Joe Caramagna.

In Spider-Man & Wolverine #1 Marvel’s most popular heroes finally team up! Took them long enough. Written by Marc Guggenheim, drawn by Kaare Andrews, colored by Brian Reber and lettered by Travis Lanham.

Scott: There are many things fans can say about Marvel and Spider-Man. On certain parts of the internet, they aren’t kind things (‘sup, Paul haters!). One thing that can’t be said? That the publisher doesn’t provide a plethora of webbed content for the wide spectrum of Spider-fans. 

Better take a deep breath, Tony, we’re gonna be diving into quite a pile today!

Tony: And a mixed pile at that! Let’s get to it.

Chock Full of Amazing

Scott: Even though it’s been happening for most of the past two decades, I’m still not entirely a fan of the double shipping of Amazing Spider-Man. On one hand, it means getting through stories faster and getting to the good stuff more quickly. On the other, it means spending more money every month and more easily falling behind. Thus why we’re covering two whole issues in this chat.

I’ll give the double shipping one thing. It can change a mind on a title real fast. 

While the third issue had some good bits in it, the fourth really turned me around on this first arc. With the end in sight, how are you feeling about this intro story now?

Tony: So I want to know what you think first. I think on the action side, it’s still as solid as it started, and I’m still liking the Peter Parker bits. The flashbacks are what surprised me.

Scott: That’s where I’m currently standing. 

With one issue, I went from sighing at this seemingly unnecessary rebel youth retcon to embracing it fully. Peter’s feelings of loss and his attempts to deal with that loss, by pushing people away through his actions, hits so hard. Most of the stories we’ve gotten are about how the transition into May and Ben’s care was mostly seamless. Plenty of love to be found there. Having it be just a bit tougher on all their parts, as it naturally would, is a retcon that is additive rather than subtractive or existing to just exist.

Tony: OK, yes, that’s why I asked. I was worried you felt differently than I did. So much of Peter’s life is defined by loss. To have a moment of teenage rebellion, which is understandable but grossly out of character for what we’ve seen of Peter’s well-documented youth, actually be an act of grief and pain is so much better. Who hasn’t lashed out at someone they love while they’re in pain? It’s a very human reaction. All of a sudden the worst part of the book to date was totally redeemed.

Scott: Visually I love how Larraz incorporates the flashbacks. Especially in the fourth issue, where they move from simple colorless panels to something more. Peter going through his memories while drugged provides some great visual fodder. We see him fall through various memories, tumble through a landscape of accusatory faces and even have that full-page shot of Gwen and MJ that is *chef’s kiss.* Even the “simple” setup of him (in color) observing the memories is so darn cool. 

Tony: While I mostly agree, one thing is bothering me about the flashbacks. From issue #4, I suddenly realized Peter is probably older than Larraz is making him look. This is probably a 13-year-old, and Larraz is drawing him at around 10. Peter should be a little taller, maybe a touch skinnier.

It’s a small thing, but it was something that the drinking in this issue made me realize. My mind was totally stuck on “There’s no way a 10-year-old would be getting drunk!” when he’s probably intended to be more around 13 or 14. But then, I wasn’t interested in booze as a kid and never heard any of my classmates talking about it until I was in high school, so maybe I’m off base?

Scott: Not too far off base. There are those who dabble younger, depending on a variety of things (life situation, location, trauma, influences, etc.), but generally pre-teen to teen is when these sorts of dalliances with alcohol or drugs happen. 

That’s a fair point about the drawing, ’cause I have wondered at times about the flashback age despite knowing they were in middle school, which firmly places them in the general area of 12-14 depending on the grade and proximity to birthday. 

Similarly to the flashbacks, I was previously a bit iffy on the Hobgoblin secret-plot thing. Now that we know what’s up, it actually kind of works. Breeding anxiety through drugs in overly consumed products in this modern era is diabolical. The Rhino thing being a mistake that brought attention to something they were keeping well hidden fits perfectly. I know very little about Itsy Bitsy, but she’s growing on me a bit, even though the obsession with a DNA donor is sure something. 

Tony: I’m still not a fan of Itsy Bitsy’s Electra complex, but overall, I’m liking her more and more.

And this is not only a very Hobgoblin-coded plan — using capitalism as a megalomaniacal tool — it’s also a great way to do what we’ve been talking about since the volume launched. Peter is skating by on the skin of his teeth, keeping himself from getting fired. Spider-Man is saving his job this time, instead of getting him in trouble. Kelly plays the balance just right. If he keeps this up, this will probably end up my favorite Spidey run since J. Michael Straczynski and John Romita Jr.

And once again, Larraz and Gracia just kill it. I’m SO worried they’ll be gone after like two arcs, but I hope that’s not the case. Give me a 30-issue run with them on art. This is the best Spidey has looked since probably Olivier Coipel and Giuseppe Camuncoli’s work on Spider-Verse.

Buy Amazing Spider-Man #4 here.

A Thwip and Snikt for Good Measure

Scott: Someone pinch me, because it must be the 2000s again. It has to be, since Wolverine is appearing in like 5 million titles a month. The clawed one has so many ongoings and minis bearing his name it’s got to be canon that he stole the Multiple Man’s powers at some point. 

Anyway, he’s got another one, and this one is pairing him up with the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Because nothing pairs better than the gregarious talkative jokester hero and the surly loner murderous hero. 

Before we get to the (sigh-worthy) conclusion of this debut issue, how did you feel about this issue overall?

Tony: Until I hit the last three pages, I was pleasantly surprised. Honestly, the only stuff from Guggenheim that I haven’t enjoyed is his X-Men team stuff. I thought his Spidey work during Brand New Day was solid to great, and I mostly like his Wolverine.

This one I thought was a lot of fun, but then those pages hit. I really like how Guggenheim wrote Shay (and frankly, if we’re not getting Peter and MJ back together, at least we’re getting someone as interesting as Shay). Logan doing black ops stuff is always fun. It’s overall just a solid-to-good issue from Guggenheim.

Scott: Neither name on that cover (nor the original announcement) got any sort of excitement out of me. That being said, this book neither brought me joy nor did it bring me misery (till those aforementioned three pages), which is probably high praise for me when it comes to Guggenheim. 

I was mostly fine with the action and such. The dialogue left a bit to be desired, and the overall nostalgia of it was kind of shruggable. Logan and Peter on a quest for something and bouncing off each other was at least a tiny bit fun. I can even get over the ridiculousness of Kraven and Omega Red being together just because Russian (both feeling like ’90s versions of themselves). I was able to see it for what it is and meet the story there, which is pretty common for stories from either of these men. 

Tony: I can see that. It’s totally a “your mileage may vary” story. I absolutely think Kraven was the wrong choice here. It should have been the Chameleon. He’s heavily plugged into the intelligence community, you would have still had the Russian connection and it would have made the Mysterio reveal work better, too.

Also, Andrews was totally going for a Todd McFarlane vibe, which I respect, even if it didn’t always land. He’s totally just here for a first-arc bump, though.

Scott: So … we should probably discuss those three pages. 

There isn’t a sigh large enough for this one. I would need a double-page spread with a sigh superimposed over my distressed face. Marvel’s consistent desire to shrink its universe and tie every single thing together is already tiresome. Even throwing out the possibility (I have a feeling it’ll get changed) that Logan killed the Parkers is so dumb it should have never seen the light of day in any form. 

Tony: So three things:

This does jive with continuity. I was so frustrated that I checked (when I normally wouldn’t). But that doesn’t make it a good idea.

This is EXACTLY the same twist as Winter Soldier killing the Starks in the MCU. It’s a trope bordering on cliche.

This could have been so much more interesting if it was just integrating Logan and Team X into the Parkers’ continuity. Instead of Wolverine “killing” the Parkers (guarantee that’s not what really happened), it could have been so much cooler if it was Logan running multiple ops with them, so Peter could spend some time asking him about them.

Scott: Exactly. 

Especially since Logan knows what happened there, and knew he was asking Peter to check into this stuff alongside him. Meaning the reveal was always a potential thing. It is cliche teaming up with boring because it’s manufactured just to get the “Oh my gosh they are fighting each other,” money thrown around, second-issue moment. These types of books are usually meant to be simple comics, but simple comics doesn’t have to mean actually simple in all aspects. Just that change you mentioned, one that Logan could have revealed to Peter as to why they need to find the files, would have changed so much.

Buy Spider-Man & Wolverine #1 here. 

Impact Web Speed Round

Our lightning round covers Spectacular Spider-Men #15 by Greg Weisman, Andres Genolet, Edgar Delgado and Joe Caramagna; Spider-Verse vs. Venomverse #1 by Mat Groom, Kyle Higgins, Luciano Vecchio, Rachelle Rosenberg and Travis Lanham; and the backup story in the Hulk & Doctor Strange one-shot by J. Michael Straczynski, Natacha Bustos, Ian Herring and Lanham.

Scott: There have been so many Spider-releases lately, we conceivably cannot get to them all in the same format as above. So it’s time to throw around some quick thoughts about a few other notable releases. 

Let’s start with the other side of the Spider-Man team-up series spectrum, Spectacular Spider-Men. 

Tony: I’ve been saying for years we needed this series. I’m glad we got what we did. I just wish it had lasted longer than the 12-18 issues that every B-Spider-Man series lasts. (Was Chip Zdarsky’s Spectacular run the last time a B-book lasted longer than that?)

I don’t think we’re going to see much of this cast after this, including the Electros and Lizards, but Weisman and company created the best and most well-rounded supporting cast a Spider-Man book has had since the first volume of Amazing ended. What’d you think?

Scott: Now that you mention it, Zdarsky’s probably was the last side Spidey book to go the distance. That feels like a lifetime ago in comic years. 

Sadly, this is a series that I kind of fell off of after the first arc, not because of the title itself. Just time. Too many comics, so little time. So while I knew nothing that had really happened before, it was really easy to fall into it and see what was up. It definitely still had that fun vibe that I recall from the first arc. 

Gosh, I miss having actual, genuine, regular supporting casts in comics. We used to be a proper society or something like that. Anyway, I agree on that front. This was a really solid group, and it felt so genuine even in just coming into this issue. It very much had the feeling of putting the toys back in the box, or at least aside, because Weisman probably realizes what you said. 

Tony: Yeah, I’m glad I stuck with the whole thing, and I hope Marvel revisits the concept of a Miles/Peter ongoing sooner rather than later.

Scott: Next up we have Spider-Verse vs. Venomverse’s debut, the latest in a line of ’Verse-related content that Marvel can’t stop pumping out. I’ve not read most of the stuff over the years, so I can’t speak to quality, but it is wild that Marvel has decided this is just something to keep putting out in every format until they can’t pull anything from the concept anymore. 

Once again, having not actually read the previous stuff, this was at least easy to follow. A lot of setup in the issue, tons of expositional beats and such. Some good action. It was enjoyable in that “a quick comic with some familiar characters and beats to scan through” sort of way.

Tony: I actually enjoyed this the most of any of these Spider-Verse books since the original. Each one since the first has had diminishing returns. How many times could Morlun and the Inheritors come back? How many times could other JMS-era bad guys make their return? Here, it’s straightforward — there can only be Spiders or Symbiotes for reasons that are defined just enough to say “sure,” so they face off in a tournament-style competition. It’s not a standard superhero brawl, the cast is kept tight (five Spiders, five Venoms) and it’s a lot more fun than normal for it.

Also, I really dig the cast. I didn’t read Venomverse, so I know none of these Venoms well (Manga is the one I know best), but having 616 Peter, Spider-Ham, Weapon VIII (rapidly becoming a favorite) and two new Spider-People was a lot of fun.

Scott: Last up in our rapid-fire docket is the shortest of them all. Marvel’s been doing a bunch of one-shot team-ups from Straczynski. This month saw the release of Hulk & Doctor Strange. Each one-shot is meant to team up “unlikely duos,” though how the old Defenders teammates and frequent collaborators are unlikely I’m not sure. What is unlikely though is the part we’re covering, a backup story with Agatha Harkness and Aunt May. 

Sometimes the unlikeliest of things can be fun. May and Agatha and a bunch of other women are in a book club where one tries to unleash hell on Earth, leading to May and Agatha fighting off her and a portal. That’s some good, simple comic book stuff. Just very engaging and energetic, as the artwork from Bustos always evokes those feelings. 

Tony: The art was the best part, but it was overall a fun little short. The aging down of Aunt May continues to be one of the better things happening in modern Marvel. May being brave enough to face an eldritch horror is such a good concept that Straczynski executes surprisingly well. I expected this to be a bit of an eye-roll story, but I’m glad I checked it out.

Buy Spider-Verse vs. Venomverse #1 here.

Web-Shots

• The JMS specials should have been called Marvel Spotlight with the characters as a subtitle. It’s so weird that it’s anything but.
• Not a Spider-story, but the Hulk/Strange story is very good. But it’s funny that it doesn’t really have any action, making the requisite three pages of punching in the issue Aunt May fighting an Elder God with a sword.
• I really hope the conclusion of this Amazing arc isn’t the conclusion of Hobgoblin’s machinations in this volume. Let’s see him around long term.
• It’ll be interesting to see if Spider-Man & Wolverine plays with Logan’s deep bench of rogues, or if we just get the usual suspects.
• Yes, that means I want an Albert and Elsie-Dee arc. Maybe with Kaine in tow?
• And seriously, why wasn’t his contact Jeff Bannister from Krakoa-era Wolverine? WHY?!

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