Yes, we’re still looking for a name, but welcome back! We’re taking a look again at three big books from across the X-Men Universe. This week, they all feature Wolverine, plus we have a special guest appearance by the Amazing Spider-Man!
In Wolverine #24, The Hand takes advantage of the Judgment Day to kill Wolverine and Solem from Benjamin Percy, Federico Vincentini, Frank D’Armata, and Cory Petit.
Zeb Wells, Patrick Gleason, Marco Menyz, and Joe Caramagna brings the Hellfire Gala to Amazing Spider-Man #9 as Wolverine, Spidey and Greycrow team up to save Peter Parker’s greatest love from Moira X.
And X-Men Green #2 brings X-Men Unlimited’s second story to print from Gerry Duggan, Emilio Laiso, Rachelle Rosenberg and Joe Sabino.
Tony Thornley: Well, when we were pre-gaming for this edition, we joked that we could do an all-Wolverine-team-up edition. We basically did, didn’t we?
Matt Lazorwitz: Yup. Three stories of ol’ Logan out and about, doing the thing he’s best at: stabbing people and being grumbly.
Hell To Pay (Wolverine #24)
Tony: Dating back to “X of Swords“, Wolverine and Solem have had a debt to pay to the Hand. They murdered one of the heads of the Hand as he was marrying the other, and naturally this means war.
Just forward a little over a year later, and they’re finally bringing it. Meanwhile, Logan and Solem team up to attack and kill the Progenitor. It’s fun.
I’m so lukewarm on this issue. I enjoy the relationship between Logan and Solem. Solem as the ultimate hedonist is a fantastic character trait. But otherwise this is so tonally off from the rest of the crossover. No one else’s judgment is going like this, and the Progenitor is acting way out of line with what we’ve seen elsewhere.
Matt: OK, let me be up front here: I’ve never been a big Wolverine solo guy. I like him fine, especially in context with the X-Men or with a character he can serve as a foil for (see the next issue we’re about to talk about), but a Wolverine solo series usually leaves me cold. And while Solem is a good foil for Wolverine in general, that is sort of the only purpose he serves, and that, like characters like The Wrath over in the Bat titles, just makes him one note, even if that note is fun as all get out.
Add in the fact that you are spot on with your commentary about the Progenitor and that I’m not 100% sure how much this Beast and Bride of Hell stuff lines up with what is going on in Daredevil and Punisher with the Hand? This is a fairly meh issue.
Tony: Despite having been ComicsXF’s Wolverine solo guy for the last two years, this is me too actually. I’ll buy the series occasionally for a creative team I like, or a story arc that I think is interesting, but it’s not a must buy — like how I usually am with Spider-Man, Superman or the Flash. This story was just all over the place, and it lands on the same issues Percy’s other long term plots have — it’s sat idle so long that everything’s moved past it, including the rest of the series itself. I feel like this series finally found such a great hook with the Maverick plotline, that this feels like a massive step backwards.
Matt: While I feel like most other titles that have tied into “Judgment Day” have organically used what is going on with the crossover, this felt forced. Combining, as you said, a mostly forgotten plot with a crossover that doesn’t fit the book makes for an issue I didn’t feel was essential.
That does remind me, how many dangling plot threads are in this book? We still haven’t paid off the vampire stuff from the beginning, plus this Hand stuff, and the Maverick plot that was much more interesting. Is there some uber-plot here that is going to tie all this together, do you think?
Tony: Yeah, you’re right, along with Solem in general and Sevyr Blackmore too (though that’s coming up in the next X-Force arc). I don’t think there’s an über-plot, but that’s a lot of leftover plotlines for any series. If there were a thematic tie to all of it, I think it would be fine, but it’s a swing from horror, to Otherworld/Arakko, to spy/black ops stuff with nothing tying it all together except Logan himself. It’s an ongoing serialized comic book, so I don’t think it needs a sense of urgency, but it definitely needs a better sense of identity. I think the Maverick plot did that, but it definitely set resolving this plot back.
Holy crap Vincentini though. I’m so glad that he’s been announced in the latest group of Young Guns or whatever they call it now. He’s just plain great. I’ll be sorry to see him leaving the X-Men office for Spider-Man in December!
Matt: Absolutely. This book has had various artists come and go, with Adam Kubert as a gold standard, and a little more Viktor Bogdanovic than I’d like. But Vincentini did a great job here, especially when it came to the motion and the action of the sword fight and Solerm’s smirking face. Able to handle action and character work that well? That’s what I look for in an artist.
Tony: And that little bit of horror when the Hand cuts their way through Solem’s harem. It’s fantastic stuff. Made a rough issue a little better.
Love, Twue Love (Amazing Spider-Man #9)
Tony: It’s September and at last we are getting resolution to the two month old plot thread from July’s Hellfire Gala. Exactly how will Wolverine and Spider-Man (and surprise guest Greycrow!) save Mary Jane Watson from Moira?
And surprise, surprise, it’s actually pretty bloodless. Except for Greycrow. He’s gonna die immediately after the last page.
I love the friendship between Logan and Peter. This entire volume of Amazing Spider-Man has been about Peter pissing off everyone in his life off-panel, and trying to fight back from that. Though over the course of the last eight issues before this, he’s largely won most everyone back, he’s still not in the best spot.
Meanwhile, Logan is the one who invites him to the Gala, and while it might seem like he did it as a joke, we know Logan. He’s a big softie, even if you’ll never be able to get that out of him willingly. He probably also sees himself a little responsible for some of Peter’s trauma (see the Wolverine/Spider-Man graphic novel from way back). I can’t help but see the invitation as anything but Logan checking in on his buddy.
Matt: I jumped into this one cold, as I am not a Spidey reader in general (although I will be right there for the “Dark Web” crossover event), and I found this very digestible. I didn’t know the details (Ed Note: Neither does anyone but Zeb Wells!), but I could get the impression that the old Parker luck had gotten Peter into trouble again.
The thing that jumped out at me in this issue, aside from the easy camaraderie between Spidey and Logan, is MJ. A well written, strong Mary Jane is something I look for in a Spider-Man comic, as my earliest Spidey exposure was the end of the Erik Larsen run/beginning of the Mark Bagley run, when the marriage was probably at its strongest. So I want an MJ with agency and with pathos. And here, we find her standing up to Moira X, who has invaded her mind and co-opted her body. I love that.
Tony: Far and away that was my favorite part of the issue, too. MJ is probably the best romantic partner in comics (except maybe Lois Lane), and I got into comics as the Spider-Marriage was at its strongest as well. Also, my favorite Spider-spin-off is Spider-Girl, so you look at THAT MJ combined with mid to late 90’s MJ up through “One More Day”, and that’s the basis for my head canon for the character.
That’s a long way of saying this is my MJ and seeing her not JUST standing up to a supervillain, but also frankly beating her, made me cheer internally. I want to see whatever is going on with her to get a resolution so we can work towards the happier-ever-after that was hinted at in “Spider-Man Beyond“.
Backtracking a little — I joke about Greycrow’s fate at the end of the issue, but he was sort of the runner-up MVP of the issue too. Sure, I get that his inclusion is Wells having a bit of a pet character, but it shows that Hellions reformed the character in such a believable way that his inclusion felt natural. I hope someone in the X-Line other than Wells picks up with the character and runs with him.
Matt: You took the words right out of my brain. Hellions is one of the best books of the Krakoa era, and I have missed Greycrow. I know the cast of Marauders is big already, but Psylocke is on the team, and it wouldn’t hurt to have an old school Marauder working to redeem the name there.
This book was littered with fun Easter Eggs too. Wells got to write Sinister again for one panel. It was great to see Gateway, who hasn’t popped up in a bit. Moira’s soldiers were a mix of AIM guys and creepy Right smile armor guys. I like those little moments that don’t take away from the story and reward regular readers, and Wells clearly misses the X-line, even if Spidey is too plum a gig to turn down,
Tony: In my opinion, the best hero-to-hero relationships Peter has is with the X-Men. Even when he was an Avenger, he was closest with Logan for the most part. I really hope this is an indication of what we can expect in “Dark Web”, because it was probably the most solid issue of the volume to date.
I would love to see a Pat Gleason drawn Wolverine/Spidey mini after this issue especially if Menyz is coloring it. The art was a real highlight here.
Eco-Crusaders (X-Men Green #2)
Matt: So, this is something else. I am reading this for the first time, since I don’t have a Marvel Unlimited subscription, and this is a rough comic. I mean that in the best way possible. Nature Girl is a sympathetic protagonist, even more so as you get deeper into her reasoning. Curse is a terrifying little monster. And you add in Sauron, everybody’s favorite jorts-wearing Pteranodon man? That’s some good comics. I found the tonal balance between the humor and the pathos strong here, but I can understand people who might find it jarring. What did you think, Tony?
Tony: I’m kind of mixed on this one. I liked the story. Nature Girl is someone I’ve enjoyed since “Age of X-Man.” It’s too bad HOXPOX came immediately afterwards, because it would have been cool to see her status after AOXM for a bit before HOXPOX. I don’t love the constant “Curse is evil!” talk because that feels like predestination in a way that the X-books have been fighting against for a while.
There’s an earnestness to the story though that just feels off to me. Talking about climate change and doing our best to slow and stop it is important. Fiction should be engaging with difficult topics like this without a doubt. The earnest way Duggan does it feels like a little too much though. Is it just me? Tell me I’m wrong if I am.
Matt: I can see where you’re coming from there. There is some Tom Taylor level preachifying here. But climate is a hard topic to find nuance in compared to some other social issues; unless you’re denying it, it’s very hard to argue we’re destroying the planet. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it’s a stretch, and I don’t know if, even with two double sized issues, you could get that nuance along with character work.
And yes, Curse is a little too evil at times. But I think that’s set up for something bigger, especially thanks to the nosebleed and the talk about how she doesn’t like giving the “good ones.” There is something about her power that is driving her this way (sort of like a child version of Miss Misery from Sleeper).
So, what about that ending? This is, chronologically, the first time Doug, Warlock and Krakoa stand up to the Council. This is one of those threads that pops up only occasionally, but is obviously going to be huge. Doug has stood up to the Council before, but do we think this is what is going to come back around to bite him? Or is this too much of a side story to have those kind of ramifications?
Tony: I wonder if this was a bit of Duggan knowing Lavalle’s plans for Sabretooth and foreshadowing them? I really am enjoying how Doug Ramsey is proving himself to be the smartest guy in the (Quiet Council) room over and over. It’s a character evolution I’m enjoying, and it makes me cross my fingers for it to continue.
Matt: Part of me wants a big Doug spotlight, but the more I think about it, the more I like him (and Warlock) as background players, slowly moving the pieces around. It’s going to explode eventually, sure, but I want it to be one of these things that, when it happens, it hasn’t been all laid out, and we get these panels from various places, like this issue, where it all comes together and it’s like, “Ooooooooh.”
How did you feel about the art here? Emilio Laiso does a good job, and is a solid artist, but for such a dark story, does the juxtaposition of his at times cartoony style, especially with character faces, work for you?
Tony: Yeah, that’s a good point. He’s a good artist but he’s also very Marvel House Style, and I think they needed someone with a bit more edge. This is basically a superhero horror story, and I think that might have landed quite a bit better with an artist who could have captured that more.
Matt: Absolutely. I don’t know if you’re reading Poison Ivy or read the recent Arkham City mini-series, but could you imagine Marcio Takara or Dani doing this book? Those are both artists who blend superheroes and horror so well. I don’t think Marvel has anyone who really does that right now, and that’s a shame.
Tony: Or, going back to Wolverine, Vincentini! (Though I think he would have been in the midst of X Deaths of Wolverine at the time this came out originally.) But yeah, someone with some good horror sensibilities? That would have made this book really effective.
X-Traneous Thoughts
- The Hellbride is Milena from Mortal Kombat, change my mind.
- The more I think about it, the more I want a Krakoan era “Spider-Man & The X-Men” miniseries a la the Zdarsky/Dodson X-4 mini. (Yes, I know we’re getting “Dark Web” this winter, but that looks like a lot more Spidey than a true even mix.)
- The beat with Black Mamba and Sauron having a mind control/sapiosexuality off? Gold.
- We may be a little down on the art not matching X-Men Green’s story but Nature Girl’s scary redesign is pretty great.
- Reading these together has made me curious how The Progenitor would judge Nature Girl.
- Join us next time when we return to the Vault, Kraven invades Krakoa and… well we’ll see what else strikes our fancy!
Matt Lazorwitz read his first comic at the age of 5. It was Who's Who in the DC Universe #2, featuring characters whose names begin with B, which explains so much about his Batman obsession. He writes about comics he loves, and co-hosts the podcasts BatChat with Matt & Will and The ComicsXF Interview Podcast.
Tony Thornley is a geek dad, blogger, Spider-Man and Superman aficionado, X-Men guru, autism daddy, amateur novelist, and all around awesome guy. He’s also very humble.
