Three stories across Gotham: Batman talks to Alan Scott, the Golden Age Green Lantern, about Vandal Savage. Savage talks to Mayor Ivy about his plans to stop Batman. And reporter Jack Dean shares some insight about how the world works with young Huston Gray. Batman #8 is written by Matt Fraction, drawn by Ryan Sook, colored by Tomeu Morey and lettered by Clayton Cowles.
Will Nevin: We’re getting closer to an animated four-part adaptation of “Knightfall.” How you feelin’ about that?
Matt Lazorwitz: Four parts is ambitious. To do a proper adaptation of the Knight-trilogy, I think you’d need that, especially since Warner Animation seems dead set on these being no more than 80 minutes, usually 75.
Will: Which, in an era of ever-expanding movies that we often decry, is a strange move. It’s not like we’re keeping the runtime short for the kiddos.
Matt: Oh, that’s just them being cheap, I’m sure. Barring AI dreck, animation ain’t cheap.
Three stories in the city
Matt: I’m going to ask a question, and I want to preface it by saying I don’t feel like this book has even entered the event horizon of the problem I’m going to ask about, but I am starting to just feel a little worried: How long can Fraction keep building out different plots that are related or semi-related without paying any of them off before there starts to be fatigue? I really enjoyed this issue, but we’re eight issues into the series and it still feels like pieces are being put in place and we haven’t seen any of the plots already established paid off.
Will: It’s one of those quiet talky comics I hate, Matt! </s> But to answer your actual, honest question, it’s hard to say. At least two of our three conversations here were connected: Vandal Savage plotting with Mayor Ivy and Batman seeking counsel from Alan Scott on how to handle said plotting. But at this point, the “we have a video of cops doing bad stuff” story is getting long in the tooth without really spelling out what the ongoing point of that even is now. I mean, I really do like character building in my capes-and-tights books, but what were they even out doing? Why should we continue to care about them (aside from, you know, caring about them as theoretical humans and avatars of social ills)? I agree with you that we’re not at a point where this is a problem, but also, the only reference to the Minotaur is basically the continued existence of gangs in Gotham, and he seemed like he was going to be a big deal. Maybe Savage is the Minotaur? Have we recklessly speculated about that?
Matt: Well, unless Vandal Savage has developed Multiple Man powers, I don’t think that’s possible, since we saw Savage standing next to Minotaur in his one featured scene, showing how corrupt the GCPD is.
Will: See? It’s friggin’ hard to keep all of this stuff going.
Matt: I love longform superhero storytelling; we talked about that a lot during Ram V’s run on Detective Comics. But that had clear structure where something was being introduced and paid off as the next act started. Here, though, we have the Savage plot; the Minotaur plot; Dr. Zeller and her Crown of Storms, which added The Joker, who for obvious reasons takes up a lot of oxygen in a story, and Hugo Strange trying to kill her. And that’s excluding the character arcs for Damian, Tim and Bruce that are all developing, which I’m grateful for because it’s nice to see characters experiencing growth and change not centered on being tortured by robots.
Will: That was some shit that actually happened, wasn’t it? Lord.
Matt: I don’t think Fraction has hit a sour note yet, but you can only keep all those plates spinning for so long (pardon the mixed metaphor) before something goes wrong.
Will: Can you imagine the strength it takes to introduce Bacta Tank Joker, only to immediately walk away from him? The mind reels at how this series could possibly be collected. (Which reminds me: Batman: Dark Patterns has a trade out this week. Everyone is obligated to buy at least one copy.)
Matt: But it’s probably time to talk about this issue in specific. I love when Batman interacts with Alan Scott, Gotham’s original superhero defender. It doesn’t happen often (I can think of two stories that jump to mind immediately that are just Batman and Alan Scott stories without their respective teams involved), but for someone who is, as Alan describes him, opaque, Batman always shows a gentle deference to Scott, something Batman is not known to do for most any other hero. And going to anyone to ask for advice is not in Bruce’s usual bag of tricks, but I think Scott is one of the few people I can see him going to, especially as he is Savage’s first modern nemesis; I say modern because Resurrection Man, Immortal Man, Rip Hunter and various other long-lived and time-traveling heroes have encountered Savage before Scott, but that’s time travel stuff and it makes me go cross-eyed.
Will: You get the sense that Bats quietly respects and maybe even idolizes Scott. Other heroes, he appreciates. Begrudgingly admires. The family, he loves (but has a hard time showing it, of course). Scott, though, is different, like maybe in some version of this universe, it was an Alan Scott movie and not the “Mark of Zorro” that night in Crime Alley. And I like that, after that little prelude, all they did was talk. And it wasn’t a ton of exposition either. Just meaningful dialogue.
Matt: I think it helps that, as one of those couple of team-ups pointed out, Alan was Thomas Wayne’s hero back when he was growing up, and with how Bruce idolizes his father to this day…
The dialogue here is great. I love Alan pointing out the different timescale someone who is 50 millennia old would think on, plus just how petty Savage is as well. And if continuity has been restored, Savage has multiple encounters with a time-traveling Bruce Wayne even before Batman has helped foil him repeatedly. And Savage, for such a big guy, is a small, petty man.
Will: Scott’s insight that maybe Savage is stuck in Gotham was interesting — and if you’re an immortal being with a grudge against Bats, why not try to destroy him?
Matt: Savage IS stuck in Gotham. I think it might have been revealed in some of the post-”Gotham War” stuff, but the artifacts that exploded at the end of the story that Bruce mentions here? Yeah, they permeated the area with the radiation that keeps Savage alive, but he can’t wander too far from it or he goes all end of Last Crusade: “He chose … poorly.” So add that to everything else embittering him.
On another note on some of the dialogue and motivation in that scene, could you imagine any version of Batman from any run since Grant Morrison going out to drink coffee in public to make sure the neighborhood knows it’s not forgotten? I can’t think of a version in recent memory that is so in touch with his humanity.
Will: Well, it’s hard to pop into the neighborhood diner when you’re falling from orbit and fighting robots. Thank god for the groundedness of this book … which only reminds me of another plot that’s slipping into the ether: Officer Gordon. Although we at least got a reference to that in this issue.
Matt: Now, you’re not reading Poison Ivy, which I am, so I have a different insight here, but reading this issue, I have to wonder if Ivy is setting Savage up for a fall. She doesn’t like or trust him, and Ivy is too smart to buy into his BS. Savage talking about his long view of history and justice and all that? The guy is a power-mad cannibal caveman who once nuked Montevideo. Ivy isn’t dumb. Do you think she’s just letting him go after Batman knowing what Batman has done to everyone else who has taken a shot at the king?
Will: I have learned two things: 1) Montevideo is a real place, and 2) Vandal Savage has nuked it. Amazing. It seems like Ivy is buying in — at least for now. You probably know more about her platform and what she intends for Gotham, but it certainly appears she has traded Savage a hunting license in exchange for foot soldiers for whatever she’s planning for the city.
Matt: Maybe we need to cover the first couple issues of Mayor Ivy from her own book soon? I haven’t read the second part from this week yet, but I can’t see Ivy falling for Savage’s line; she knows he’s going to stab her in the back the first chance he gets. But we’ll have to see what angle she’s playing, because Ivy made it clear nothing is free here.
Will: Politics is transactional! You’re only worth what you can do for someone else. Cynical, but true.
Matt: I want to make sure to call out Ryan Sook’s art in this issue. Jorge Jimenez has set a very specific tone for the book, and while Sook isn’t in that same style, he does a good job with this issue. I love his two-page spread of Savage and Ivy’s past, and the stacked panels as Bruce and Alan get coffee look really nice. He’s come a long way from being a Mike Mignola clone early in his career.
Will: Great call to have Jimenez on the cover to continue a visual continuity. And that spread was wisely not cluttered with a lot of dialogue or narration. If you’re going to do something that shows off the history of these characters, get the hell out of the way.
Bat-miscellany
- The BatChat podcast returns to Will’s bookshelf of random comics you can’t read online, including a sadly timely story with art by Sam Kieth.
- Saying it again here: Dark Patterns trade. Buy it. Although I really want an Absolute Edition hardcover.
Buy Batman #8 here. (Disclaimer: As an Amazon Associate, ComicsXF may earn from qualifying purchases.)
Matt Lazorwitz read his first comic at the age of 5. It was Who's Who in the DC Universe #2, featuring characters whose names begin with B, which explains so much about his Batman obsession. He writes about comics he loves, and co-hosts the podcasts BatChat with Matt & Will and The ComicsXF Interview Podcast.
Will Nevin loves bourbon and AP style and gets paid to teach one of those things. He is on Twitter far too often.
