A frank talk with Betty in Immortal Hulk #48 written by Al Ewing, pencilled by Joe Bennett, inked by Ruy JosƩ and Belardino Brabo. with colors by Paul Mounts, and letters by Cory Petit
Robert Secundus: Including this, just three issues left in one of the most incredible, triumphant runs in modern comics memory, and thus the end of Times Immortal. I donāt know about you, Cori, but while Iām feeling very melancholic, very nostalgic about this title, these discussions, Iām equally excited to see how it all comes together. I am desperately hoping that The Immortal Hulk comes together in such a way that it can stand forever as one complete, classic story.
Cori: Iād say it would have to whiff the landing pretty dang hard to not be considered an all-timer, but what do I know? I too am going to miss these chats, and the next time you and I will get together on one it will be for the big finale.
āAnd I dream of a grave, deep and narrow”
Rob: Iāve got a couple of bullshit degrees in āliteratureā or whatever, but Iāll be honest with you: I have read very little Kafka. I know the one with the Bug-guy that notable Evolutionary Biologists seem to struggle with. Iām vaguely aware of The Trial. On Monday, when I encountered this quotation, I thought Iād try to speed read The Castle, but an ongoing brain-problem with text put the kibosh on that. So Iām just going to offer a couple of bits of context that might be helpful, and a couple of thoughts of what this is doing here.Ā
The Castle is an incomplete novel about a man who believes that he has been summoned to a castle to complete some job. When he arrives at the nearby village, bureaucracy endlessly delays him from ever entering the actual castle. Kafka planned for the novel to end with the protagonistās death, still never having gotten inside. The whole premise feels surreal, and funny, and satirical, and horrifying in the way we now describe as Kafkaesque. To meā again, without having actually read itā it feels a lot like Brazil. Human bureaucracy being this kind of cosmic force that can trap you until you die also feels a lot like Immortal Hulk. The other important bit of context is that this quote is said by that protagonist to his fiancĆ©. Itās ostensibly romantic.
Cori: Your excuse is much better than mine. Me? Iāve read zero Kafka. Not even the bug one. However I never even considered trying to speed read a novel. I just thought, surely Rob or Zach can just tell me what it all means, and thatās that. Clearly I was wrong, but YOLO. I do find it funny that you cited this as an unfinished novel, and then went on to describe that it would have ended with the main character never finishing the thing he set out to do, so in a way The Castle was Kafkaās own personal The Castle. That said, I absolutely agree about the romantic context of this quote, as it feels like it was specifically chosen to set up the contents of this very quiet issue. Rob: Itās an issue about a few things, but above all else the relationships between Betty and Joe, and Betty and the whole system. In the quote, K. wants to be totally alone with his beloved, alone and unseen, away from the world. And he associates that love and that isolation with death. Itās a quote about wanting to hide away with your love, and wanting to die with your love. At the start, it seems like Betty and Joe are able to establish a real connection for the first time this series, but that impulse to hide is ultimately shown to be the core problem in their relationship:
The Man Who Didnāt Know How To Fixit
Cori: As Betty said, itās always Bruce thatās doing the hiding, and I think this issue drove home something that had been on the edges of this series, but hadnāt really been deeply explored. That Joe exists solely as a broken childās idea of what a man should be. And one thing that I thought about after reading this issue is how this juxtaposes with a different character that shares that same genesis.
Joe and Captain Marvel (no I will never call the character Shazam! And you canāt make me. Shazam is the goldarn wizard and I will hear nothing otherwise) are both childrenās idealized versions of what adulthood should be. The difference though is that while Billy Batsonās life isnāt a bed of roses, itās not the dark despairing mess that Bruce Bannerās childhood was. Billy maintained hope and through that found love and family, while Bruce had the hope beaten out of him. Billyās ideal adulthood is brave, and kind. Bruceās is rage and fury meant to disguise pain and fear. Itās a stunning comparison and one that makes me just a little sadder for Bruce.
Rob: Thatās a fascinating comparison, Cori. I think Captain Marvelās importance to Superhero Fiction is pretty underestimated in the general population. The character not only defined the golden age, but its literalization of the escapist fantasy established a kind of archetype that would be revisited over and over again in genre. We see it recur in all kinds of weird places, not just in things like Miracleman, but also in the plans for Gambit and Mister Sinister, in the newest iteration of Venom, and now in this recontextualization of the Hulk. Itās interesting to me too that while Billy is granted power through virtuous legendsā strength of Hercules, wisdom of Solomon and all thatā this is a Captain Marvel assembled through vicious fiction. We know the Devil Hulk emerged from the Satan of Paradise Lost, and we see here how Joe emerged from gangster movies.
I think thereās a great power, an agency in this take on the archetype. Bruce isnāt granted his power by a wizard, and he isnāt given the virtues that other people have decided are good. These are his ideas. These are the fictions he chose to escape into. But there are problems here too. A fiction doesnāt always have a complete person at its center. Whatās fascinating to me about Joe is his self-awareness. He knows that this is a problem. And, though he doesnāt know how yet, he, as his name implies, just wants to Fix It. To be good. To be complete.
Cori: And we can see that heās trying but that to fix somethings it may be too little too late. Running and hiding doesnāt eliminate problems, it just prolongs them, allowing them to fester and build. While itās clear that it may have been too long to salvage things with Betty, that conversation, that realization, is what pushes him to stop hiding from the other major problem in his life, and the issue closes with his intent to go rescue himself.
The Woman Who Pulled No Punches
Rob: And on the other side of the conversation we have Betty, a character who was not permitted agency throughout most of her publication history, who has gained agency only through her death.
Betty has been one of the most fascinating characters in this run. In the odd Red She-Hulk era, she was finally allowed power, but in Immortal Hulk sheās finally been allowed monstrosity, something normally not permitted to female characters. And in this conversation we get to see a bit more of who she has become.
Cori: God, sheās just a wonderful breath of fresh air in this series. Iāve said before that I donāt have a lot of experience with Hulk in general, so pretty much all the Betty Iāve gotten outside of Hulk: Gray is in the pages of this series. Thatās not to say though that I donāt recognize the archetype she normally embodies. Sheās the girlfriend of the superhero. There to provide motivation and not much more. These types of characters ran rampant through the Silver Age, occasionally being allowed to be something more, but often theyāre just a plot point to encourage the hero in his own journey. As you said Rob, itās a role that lacks agency and purpose, and watching Betty claim both of those things in this series has been an absolute delight. Itās nice to see that rather than finishing this series as a supporting character, sheās instead leaving early, of her own volition, and moving on to Defenders.
Rob: Sheās accused Bruce of running, running and hiding, but I donāt think sheās being hypocritical here. Thereās a difference between running and, as you say, leaving, between hiding from something and heading toward something. And Iām so excited to see just what her new journey in that title will entail.
Cori: Yeah, I absolutely agree that sheās not running to hide, sheās running to FIND. She needs to find out who she is without Joe. Without Bruce. Without Hulk. She needs to reclaim herself, in a way that sheās never been able to, because sheās always just been the back half of āBruce andā¦ā Itās time for her to find something beyond that, just like itās time for Joe to stop hiding as well.
Marvelous Musings
- Cori was excited to be off next month until Zoe reminded her that she still has a Gamma Flight issue to review.
- The finale is going to be 80 pages of story, so get ready friends.
- Itās an interesting juxtaposition to have Jenās monologue play over Bettyās history, considering Jenās the one whoās had agency but is still tied to Hulk close enough that she canāt break away completely.
Robert Secundus is an amateur-angelologist-for-hire.
